Filmmaking / Directing : Anybody else hear that music? by Doug Kayne

Hey, @Doug. I've came up with lyrics that tied into the stories.

One could probably do "soundalike" tunes, with new lyrics as well.

That needle drop lineup is genuinely great, "War" as White House hold music is the kind of specific choice that tells you a lot about the writers' voice before you even watch a frame. The James Gunn comparison is the key thing though, the difference usually isn't the practice itself, it's leverage. Studios secure those clearances for established filmmakers with a track record because the budget and relationships already exist. For most writers submitting on spec, the read-thru advice you got is generally right, real songs can read as amateurish to some readers precisely because it signals the writer doesn't yet grasp the rights realities, even when the instinct behind it is good.

That said, the underlying instinct, using music to set tone or land a joke, doesn't have to disappear. Describing the type or era of song, or using a placeholder that gestures at the vibe without naming the actual track, usually reads just as strong on the page and doesn't create the same red flag for a reader. If you ever want a second pair of eyes on how to handle needle drops or soundtrack cues in a script so they land the tone without raising clearance flags for readers, I'm a professional script editor and happy to take a look.

Also didn't know about the Tom Lehrer catalog going public domain, that's a genuinely useful resource to have in the back pocket.

Doug Kayne I have done this in theatrical productions, specifically during our 2010 and 2011 L.A. productions of for colored girls who considered suicide\when the rainbow is enuf (the first professional production in L.A. of the award winning choreopoem since it broke records in the early 1980s, and so far the last...). That's specifically because the production requires extensive music and song, but includes none in the materials, so you must always build the production from scratch. So me and my co-producer Carrie Cain Sparks chose a number of thematic songs which the cast performed live. Apart from that, for my Nightcrossings scripts I do include specific thematic pieces related to the main character, which require licensing and in some cases original recording. Regarding including them in a script - if it's really just because the writer thinks they're cool, then drop them; it's an only added budget red flag for no story reason, and music directors are usually better at that part of the creative process. If it is thematically or plot-wise related to the script, or if the music is required as part of cultural background, then of course keep it because it is important and should remain and be licensed if possible.

Setting the mood between good versus evil is my top priority

That's not a bad workaround, Maurice Vaughan...though I guess it depends on the song itself as to whether or not you'd still owe royalties due to the music itself.

That's not a bad solution, Bruce Edwards - Film/TV Composer. I'm sure there are some cheaper/royalty-free music that would suffice in that regard.

Alex Recheal Don't get me wrong -- I'm fully aware that James Gunn had (and still has) quite a bit more leverage than I do, thus making it easier to convince the studio for the music requested. On the flip side, very few casual moviegoers had even heard of the Guardians of the Galaxy before the movie came out, so it could technically still be a bit of a high financial risk.

The solution you give is a pretty good one to bear in mind. Strangely, that one particular series in question is the only one I've written with the needle drops being part of the character of the show. With that show unfortunately dead in the water (long story), it looks like I probably won't have that problem again (at least until I have the influence level akin to James Gunn).

I don't know if/when the Tom Lehrer website will go offline, so if there are songs you particularly like, I'd download them as soon as possible so you have them saved for when you might want or need them.

That's cool, Shadow Dragu-Mihai. I've been in a few stage productions here in L.A. which also have had robust soundtracks throughout, mostly to set the mood (I remember playing a hitman in a play set in the 80s, and taking the stage as "Bad Moon Rising" played).

Definitely! Music can be such a powerful part of storytelling, especially when the right song or lyric captures what a character is feeling without saying it directly. I’m a songwriter, so I’m always interested in how music can work alongside the story and strengthen a scene. I’d be curious to hear more about how you approached the soundtrack for your project.

Mary Harper It kind of depended on the needle drop in question. In the episode where one of the characters goes to her high school reunion, I thought it would be funny to have "Reunited" playing in the elevator. Humor also led to the inclusion of "War" for the hold music at the White House. Some songs had deeper meaning, for example when the two antagonists battle it out in a fist fight (it makes sense as a part of the story), "Ali in the Jungle" fit because the underdog wins. And the last song of the season was "Sympathy for the Devil" because the villains, now thought of as heroes, decide to continue being villains. So, some of the songs were thematic in nature, and others because I thought it would be an amusing little bit.

Agreed, Grace Realt. Once money enters the equation, there are very few hills I'm willing to die on, story-wise.

You could probably use AI to make a tune that sounds like the styles of the artists you want, but with different lyrics if you want to tell your own stories. Play around with it and see what works.

Nah, Haley Mary. I’m avoiding using AI for that like the plague. I’d rather pay actual artists.

I definitely understand why you include specific songs when they help establish the mood or strengthen a joke. Sometimes a particular song can communicate the tone of a scene more effectively than several lines of description.

That said, I think it’s useful to separate the creative reference from the final production plan, especially when licensing costs could become an issue. If the song is essential to the story, I’d keep it as a creative reference while also considering alternatives that could achieve a similar emotional effect.

The idea of a soundtrack being part of the pitch is especially interesting it can give a project a much stronger identity when used thoughtfully.

Some people use AI to get close to the sound then commission a artist to get the sound right.

Doug Kayne, If you don't mind i can get done for you, so message me let talk about freely.

Thanks, Karolina Ferguson. You raise some good points!

They definitely do, Victor Campudoni. I, however, am eschewing A.I. in my writing and creative process.

Thanks, Alex Recheal, but the series I'm discussing in my blog post is pretty much dead in the water. Things happening behind the scenes (which I will not be getting into) led me and my co-writer to need to cut ties with the other producers, and unfortunately this series became a primary casualty. The characters still have some life in them, so they may find their way into something else at a later point. On the plus side, the demise of the supervillain series led us to create a stronger offering, our sci-fi comedy series GOING COMMANDER. Silver lining!

You’re very welcome! I really appreciate you taking the time to engage with my thoughts. It’s always great to exchange perspectives and learn from other creatives in the industry. Wishing you continued success with your projects!

To you as well, Karolina Ferguson! And who knows...we may get to work together someday as well!

I've included mentions of themetically relevant real songs and lyrics in my latest script that has a theme of performance and showbiz throughout. It was fun mining through old songs and reacreting parts of my old playlist on the page.

Doug Kayne I definitely use music while writing, but I’m a little cautious about putting too many specific songs into the screenplay itself.

Sometimes a particular song is the thing that unlocks a scene for me the rhythm, lyrics, or emotional association can tell me something about the character that dialogue doesn't. But I usually treat that song as a writing reference rather than automatically as a production requirement.

If the song is essential to the storytelling or the joke genuinely depends on that specific track, then I think it's worth naming it. Otherwise, I’d rather describe the feeling, energy, or function of the music and leave room for the eventual director, composer, editor, or music supervisor to find the right solution.

I also like the idea of keeping a private playlist for the project. You get the creative benefit of specific songs without turning the screenplay into a rights-clearance problem before it even gets made.

And the idea of a tie-in soundtrack can be a really interesting world-building/marketing tool, especially when music is deeply connected to the identity of the project.

Some good points here, Abhijeet Aade. And, yes, I have come around to the idea of minimizing the number of specific songs necessary for a screenplay. It really only seemed to fit for this particular series. Then again, soundtrack sales...

The success of a dramatic work truly hinges on the music. However, an important point must be made: if you have a simple yet masterfully crafted cinematic score that harmonizes perfectly with the scene, there is no need to purchase the most expensive piece of music. Conversely, if you use famous music that draws attention but fails to align with the director's vision for the shot, the viewer will not enjoy the experience; ultimately, the entire matter depends on the director's vision for the final work.

Doug Kayne Thanks! I can definitely see why it made sense for that particular series, especially if the songs were part of the show's identity rather than just mood-setting.

And yes, the soundtrack angle is interesting. If the music becomes genuinely connected to the world of the series, it can become an extension of the project rather than simply something playing underneath it. The challenge is making sure the story works just as well even if some of those specific tracks eventually have to change for budget or rights reasons.

If the songs are doing both narrative and branding work, though, I can see the argument for keeping them in the pitch.

Absolutely! I’d be happy to explore that possibility. It would be great to find the right project where our creative strengths could come together. Let’s stay connected, and hopefully an opportunity to collaborate comes along in the future.

I was actually just reading about the legalities of doing so in prose the other day. It is a little more restraining then I thought it might be actually. But yes, music finds it's way in to everything I write.

i would normally put my own music in my script. Call it extraneous, unnecessary or even distracting, for me it enhances my voice and vision .Music also adds more substance to how it resonates to my audience. I prefer as much as possible to use known melodies to a minimum (to avoid fees and banality) and instead, use my own melodies and lyrics to deepen or heighten or even give the story a multidimensional impact that hopefully could not be forgotten.

Well, Doug Kayne.........while I agree there are cheaper options than "custom" music, there's none that are as good as a custom song, written for your film. One that's based on your characters and story. That was kind of my point here.

i can help you out

That makes a lot more sense, Bruce Edwards - Film/TV Composer. And extra points if it's a relatively unheard of artist that you can give more exposure to.

I think I'm good for the time being, Kufre Joseph. For the most part, I don't include specific songs/music in screenplays any longer.

Yes, it's certainly not the cheapest option, but having a score and/or soundtrack that is custom tailored to your script and characters can take a project over the top, or elevate it to a whole new level.....I like to ask the director and sometimes the writers a lot of questions before I start a score (and sometimes after) so I can really get in tune with the characters, and the flow of the story. A film score should be much more than "background music", although sometimes it performs that function. It should support, enhance and flow with the story...........IMHO, of course.

Sparingly, mostly often with the caveat ‘or similar. I’m not the Director/Music Director. I only have one story where a piece of music, a hymn, is the only thing which enables the third act. It’s 17th century and the hymn is ‘Stars in my crown’ I used it despite it being anachronistic because - hey - who knows which year hymns were ‘published’.

Anachronistic music can work, depending on the screenplay (and what you’re going for), David Taylor. See A KNIGHT’S TALE and MOULIN ROUGE, for example.

Including specific songs in your script can signal tone and mood, but you should understand they might need to be swapped out later due to rights issues. Have you ever written a scene shaped by a song, and did it still work when you imagined it without the music?

One can avoid those pesky "rights issues" by using custom music. Get the song(s) you need, written to fit your story and script and you're done. Yes, it costs money. But considering how much music can elevate your film, if you think about it, you may find it's worth it...........again, just my humble opinion.......

Most definitely, Samantha Rivera. Music enhances the scene, but it still has to be able to stand on its own.

Makes total sense, Bruce Edwards - Film/TV Composer